Editing Rust
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− | + | This article is intended to act as a centralized resource for the online hotrodding community, on the subject of rust. It references *** articles, and *** forum discussions, from the following automotive forums: *******. | |
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− | + | You can add to or edit this article right now. Simply click the "edit" link to the right-hand side of any article section. For more information on editing (like how to add links and photos) see [[Help:Contents|the Help section]]. | |
− | + | To confidently handle automotive rust, there are only 4 things you'll need to know: | |
− | + | #What is rust, and what causes it? | |
+ | #What are the various chemicals, finish products, and tools used for handling rust? | ||
+ | #What are the various methods for removing, "treating", and preventing rust? | ||
+ | #Which method, product, and tools should be used in a specific situation? | ||
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− | == | + | =What causes rust?= |
+ | Rust needs iron, water, and oxygen to form. Here's how: | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | Start with this article: http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html . | ||
+ | |||
+ | Plus, information on why older cars rust more quickly than newer cars: | ||
+ | |||
*Cars are more aggressively coated these days. Galvanizing (explain). | *Cars are more aggressively coated these days. Galvanizing (explain). | ||
*Steel used in cars is of a higher quality these days. | *Steel used in cars is of a higher quality these days. | ||
*More salt is used on roads these days. | *More salt is used on roads these days. | ||
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+ | |||
+ | ==What is rust?== | ||
+ | Rust is also known as iron oxide. An oxide is a chemical compound which contains an oxygen atom and other elements. Steel is mostly iron, with some carbon. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Iron is FE, although it rarely exists in pure form. Oxygen is O2. They combine to form FE2O3: iron oxide. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Rust is an example of corrosion -- deterioration of a material from reaction with its environment. Rust is electrochemical corrosion. For it to occur, it needs an anode (a piece of metal that gives up electrons), an electrolyte (a liquid that helps transport electrons), and a cathode (a piece of metal that accepts electrons). | ||
+ | |||
+ | Water combines with air to form carbonic acid, a good electrolyte. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Seawater and salt spray make better electrolytes, so they increase rust. | ||
=Rust assessment= | =Rust assessment= | ||
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The "best" way to handle surface rust on an entire body is to have it professionally dipped, often at a cost of over $1000. This amount of money may not be available for a specific project, or it may be impractical to invest it. | The "best" way to handle surface rust on an entire body is to have it professionally dipped, often at a cost of over $1000. This amount of money may not be available for a specific project, or it may be impractical to invest it. | ||
− | If you take time to properly | + | If you take time to properly asses your own rust situation, you can choose a well-thought out solution that's "best" for you. |
− | + | ==The rusted part== | |
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− | + | ||
*Can the part be removed? How large is it? Is it small enough to be soaked? | *Can the part be removed? How large is it? Is it small enough to be soaked? | ||
*What part is it? Is it a body panel? | *What part is it? Is it a body panel? | ||
− | + | ==The rust itself== | |
How bad is it? Exactly how to assess: | How bad is it? Exactly how to assess: | ||
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*Rust coming through seams? (research this) | *Rust coming through seams? (research this) | ||
− | + | ==Climate and operating environment== | |
Do you live in a climate where water or salt will be present in the air? Is it a wintery climate where snow and/or salt will be present on the roads? Near the ocean? | Do you live in a climate where water or salt will be present in the air? Is it a wintery climate where snow and/or salt will be present on the roads? Near the ocean? | ||
What environment will the part be operating in? Interior of car? Undercarriage? Submerged in oil? | What environment will the part be operating in? Interior of car? Undercarriage? Submerged in oil? | ||
− | + | ==Skills== | |
Most of the skills required for removing rust are commonplace. However, certain jobs may require welding, or metal shaping. | Most of the skills required for removing rust are commonplace. However, certain jobs may require welding, or metal shaping. | ||
− | + | ==Tools== | |
− | Besides basic hand tools, do you have | + | Besides basic hand tools, do you have access to a DA sander? Media blaster? Spot blaster? Blast cabinet? Spray gun? |
− | + | ==Cost== | |
− | How much money do you have to put into the rust removal? What's the value of the project? | + | How much money do you have to put into the rust removal? What's the value of the project? Can you expect a reasonable return on your investment? |
− | + | ==Time== | |
How much time can you put into the project? Both work time, and wait time. Do you have the time necessary to eliminate surface rust from a body by hand? Do you have time to drop a part into a bucket, and wait a few weeks while it soaks? | How much time can you put into the project? Both work time, and wait time. Do you have the time necessary to eliminate surface rust from a body by hand? Do you have time to drop a part into a bucket, and wait a few weeks while it soaks? | ||
− | + | ==Overall vehicle goal== | |
− | What's your | + | What's your plan for the vehicle? What kind of abuse is it going to take, and how important are looks? Will it be a daily driver? Are you going to show it? |
=Rust removal, treatment, and prevention= | =Rust removal, treatment, and prevention= | ||
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Realistically, it's not very difficult for one company to chemically analyze another company's "secret formula", and produce an identical (or extremely similar) product. Many of the various rust removal and encapsulation products are, more or less, the same. A lot of it boils down to marketing, and the situation is only exacerbated by the fact that it's difficult to make a thorough assessment of a rust treatment product. Properly assessing a rust treatment solution would likely involve waiting several years, and then removing any outer layers of finish so that any existing underlying rust could be examined. | Realistically, it's not very difficult for one company to chemically analyze another company's "secret formula", and produce an identical (or extremely similar) product. Many of the various rust removal and encapsulation products are, more or less, the same. A lot of it boils down to marketing, and the situation is only exacerbated by the fact that it's difficult to make a thorough assessment of a rust treatment product. Properly assessing a rust treatment solution would likely involve waiting several years, and then removing any outer layers of finish so that any existing underlying rust could be examined. | ||
− | The uneducated consumer will likely recoil at the abundance of "magic" formulas for treating rust, and revert to selecting a safe, well-known, name-brand product line. This is a reasonable solution for many, but the name-brand rust treatment products tend to be rather expensive, especially in consideration of the fact that they are often comprised of inexpensive, common chemicals. | + | The uneducated consumer will likely recoil at the abundance of "magic" formulas for treating rust, and revert to selecting select a safe, well-known, name-brand product line. This is a reasonable solution for many, but the name-brand rust treatment products tend to be rather expensive, especially in consideration of the fact that they are often comprised of inexpensive, common chemicals. |
Someone who has achieved good results with a certain combination of rust treatment products will often stay loyal to their method, without exploring other potential options that may indeed provide better results at a lower cost. | Someone who has achieved good results with a certain combination of rust treatment products will often stay loyal to their method, without exploring other potential options that may indeed provide better results at a lower cost. | ||
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===Miscellaneous (need to be sorted)=== | ===Miscellaneous (need to be sorted)=== | ||
*[http://www.tat-co.com/product.asp?ID=154 Body-Tec amber rustproofing]. 24 oz spray can. manufac: " Light viscosity allows material to flow into hard to reach areas easily. Ideal for core supports, sheet metal, frames etc" | *[http://www.tat-co.com/product.asp?ID=154 Body-Tec amber rustproofing]. 24 oz spray can. manufac: " Light viscosity allows material to flow into hard to reach areas easily. Ideal for core supports, sheet metal, frames etc" | ||
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*Amsoil HD | *Amsoil HD | ||
*Slicksand | *Slicksand | ||
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*Duro Extend | *Duro Extend | ||
*Devoe Bar-Rust | *Devoe Bar-Rust | ||
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*Loctite Extend Rust Treatment | *Loctite Extend Rust Treatment | ||
− | *Rustoleum (generally considered a poor choice for automotive applications. Good for cheap shop shelving, etc. | + | *Rustoleum (generally considered a poor choice for automotive applications. Good for cheap shop shelving, etc. |
*[http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/specialized_maintenance_repair/body_interior_trim/auto_Permatex_Rust_Treatment.htm Permatex Rust Treatment] | *[http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/specialized_maintenance_repair/body_interior_trim/auto_Permatex_Rust_Treatment.htm Permatex Rust Treatment] | ||
*[http://ridrust.com/ RidRust] | *[http://ridrust.com/ RidRust] | ||
*[http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MAutomotive/Aftermarket/Products/Product-Catalog/?PC_7_0_53BC_root=GST1T4S9TCgv&PC_7_0_53BC_output=html&PC_7_0_53BC_gvel=6DTWTJQPBBgl&PC_7_0_53BC_vroot=GSLPLPKL4Xge&PC_7_0_53BC_node=GSQJ0YVJLSbe&PC_7_0_53BC_theme=en_US_aad_portal&PC_7_0_53BC_command=CustomizePageHandler Rust Fighter] | *[http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MAutomotive/Aftermarket/Products/Product-Catalog/?PC_7_0_53BC_root=GST1T4S9TCgv&PC_7_0_53BC_output=html&PC_7_0_53BC_gvel=6DTWTJQPBBgl&PC_7_0_53BC_vroot=GSLPLPKL4Xge&PC_7_0_53BC_node=GSQJ0YVJLSbe&PC_7_0_53BC_theme=en_US_aad_portal&PC_7_0_53BC_command=CustomizePageHandler Rust Fighter] | ||
*DuPont 5717S Metal Conditioner | *DuPont 5717S Metal Conditioner | ||
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*[http://www.jasco-help.com/products/prod_mg.htm Jasco] | *[http://www.jasco-help.com/products/prod_mg.htm Jasco] | ||
*Prep-sol | *Prep-sol | ||
*[http://www.napasco.com/enrustreat.htm Mar-Hyde Rust Converter] | *[http://www.napasco.com/enrustreat.htm Mar-Hyde Rust Converter] | ||
*Rust N-M-E | *Rust N-M-E | ||
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*[http://www.hammerite-automotive.com/ Hammerite] | *[http://www.hammerite-automotive.com/ Hammerite] | ||
*[http://www.eurekafluidfilm.com/ Fluid Film] | *[http://www.eurekafluidfilm.com/ Fluid Film] | ||
− | * | + | *Waxoyl |
*[http://rustonic.com Rustonic] | *[http://rustonic.com Rustonic] | ||
*[http://duplicolor.com/products/rustfix.html Duplicolor Rust Fix] | *[http://duplicolor.com/products/rustfix.html Duplicolor Rust Fix] | ||
*[http://www.therustdoctor.com/ Rust Doctor] | *[http://www.therustdoctor.com/ Rust Doctor] | ||
*[http://bluelightning.zoovy.com/product/RR32 Blue Lightning] | *[http://bluelightning.zoovy.com/product/RR32 Blue Lightning] | ||
− | * | + | *Picklex-20 |
*[http://rust007.com/knockout.htm Rust Knockout] | *[http://rust007.com/knockout.htm Rust Knockout] | ||
*[http://www.napasco.com/enrustreat.htm Enrust] | *[http://www.napasco.com/enrustreat.htm Enrust] | ||
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*Rust-Check | *Rust-Check | ||
*[http://www.evaporust.com/ Evapo-Rust Rust Remover] | *[http://www.evaporust.com/ Evapo-Rust Rust Remover] | ||
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*[http://www.corroless.com/ Corroless] | *[http://www.corroless.com/ Corroless] | ||
*[http://www.kleanstrip.com/special.htm Klean Strip Rust Converter] | *[http://www.kleanstrip.com/special.htm Klean Strip Rust Converter] | ||
− | *[http://www.zerorust.com/ Zero Rust] -- [http://www.zerorust.com/tech.htm tech page], [http://www.zerorust.com/faq.htm faq]. Rust cleaning product is "prep-step", and clearcoat is called "crystal coat" | + | *[http://www.zerorust.com/ Zero Rust] -- [http://www.zerorust.com/tech.htm tech page], [http://www.zerorust.com/faq.htm faq]. Rust cleaning product is "prep-step", and clearcoat is called "crystal coat" |
*Rust Reformer | *Rust Reformer | ||
*[http://www.rustbullet.com Rust Bullet] | *[http://www.rustbullet.com Rust Bullet] | ||
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*DuPont Vari-Prime | *DuPont Vari-Prime | ||
*All-Metal | *All-Metal | ||
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===Rust removers and "converters"=== | ===Rust removers and "converters"=== | ||
− | After using an acid to remove rust, flush the surface with water and baking soda | + | After using an acid to remove rust, flush the surface with water and baking soda (confirm or expand on this). |
When converting/neutralizing rust: | When converting/neutralizing rust: | ||
− | # Get everything off first that you can by sanding and wire brushing (wire brushing will get into the pits better) | + | # Get everything off first that you can by sanding and wire brushing (wire brushing will get into the pits better) |
− | # A rust converter/neutralizer containing | + | # A rust converter/neutralizer containing phospheric acid or another type of acid shold be used |
− | # Be careful of getting this stuff on your concrete floor as it will bubble and decompose it | + | # Be careful of getting this stuff on your concrete floor as it will bubble and decompose it |
− | # Follow the instructions on the bottle when you are done there should be a fine coating on the metal which will help prevent further rust from developing | + | # Follow the instructions on the bottle when you are done there should be a fine coating on the metal which will help prevent further rust from developing |
− | # This stuff is hard on paintbrushes (eats away the | + | # This stuff is hard on paintbrushes (eats away the brisles) and you must be very careful of your eyes. Also it will ruin paint so again use caution. |
Lots of "rust neutralizers/metal etchers/floor etchers/metal conditioners" contain primarily phosphoric acid, which reacts with rust (iron oxide) to create iron phosphate, a hard black substance over which primer can be applied. | Lots of "rust neutralizers/metal etchers/floor etchers/metal conditioners" contain primarily phosphoric acid, which reacts with rust (iron oxide) to create iron phosphate, a hard black substance over which primer can be applied. | ||
− | Don't use battery acid (sulfuric | + | Don't use battery acid (sulfuric acid) for rust removal. It's too dangerous, and there are many more effective chemicals. |
− | + | ||
− | *[http://rustbeeter.com/ Rustbeeter] Merchant description: A byproduct of the sugar refining process. Probably similar to molasses. Parts must be submerged. Parts soak in a bucket for usually under a week, but as long as several weeks. Food product. Dry powder that gets mixed with water. Non-acidic or caustic. After use, parts are cleaned with | + | *[http://rustbeeter.com/ Rustbeeter] Merchant description: A byproduct of the sugar refining process. Probably similar to molasses. Parts must be submerged. Parts soak in a bucket for usually under a week, but as long as several weeks. Food product. Dry powder that gets mixed with water. Non-acidic or caustic. After use, parts are cleaned with dishsoap and water, dried, and coated. |
*[http://www.tinmantech.com/html/must_for_rust_remover_inhibi.php Must for Rust] Merchant description: removes rust and corrosion, non-caustic to skin, needs no neutralizing, primer goes right over it. $28/gallon. | *[http://www.tinmantech.com/html/must_for_rust_remover_inhibi.php Must for Rust] Merchant description: removes rust and corrosion, non-caustic to skin, needs no neutralizing, primer goes right over it. $28/gallon. | ||
− | *[http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=15974&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=373&iSubCat=374&iProductID=15974 Eastwood Rust Converter] Merchant description: 2-part mix, adheres to bare or rusty steel, and can be | + | *[http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=15974&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=373&iSubCat=374&iProductID=15974 Eastwood Rust Converter] Merchant description: 2-part mix, adheres to bare or rusty steel, and can be topcoated with most coatings. 1 gallon each of the 2-part mix is $125. |
*[http://www.rust-cure.com/ Rust Cure] Merchant description: phosphoric acid-based. leaves a thin film that bonds well with most primers and paints. for pricing, need to see this page: http://rustcure.bizland.com/xwheretobuy.html . | *[http://www.rust-cure.com/ Rust Cure] Merchant description: phosphoric acid-based. leaves a thin film that bonds well with most primers and paints. for pricing, need to see this page: http://rustcure.bizland.com/xwheretobuy.html . | ||
*[http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=1124&itemType=PRODUCT Oxisolv Rust Remover] Merchant description: dissolves rust and leaves behind a zinc phosphate coating. Spray/brush/dip. Non-toxic, non-flammable, and re-usable. Must be cleaned off before priming. | *[http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=1124&itemType=PRODUCT Oxisolv Rust Remover] Merchant description: dissolves rust and leaves behind a zinc phosphate coating. Spray/brush/dip. Non-toxic, non-flammable, and re-usable. Must be cleaned off before priming. | ||
*[http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=11122&itemType=PRODUCT Eastwood Rust Dissolver] Merchant description: acid free rust remover, leaves surface ready to paint, plate, or powder coat. Suitable for engine parts, and harmless to copper, brass, aluminum, solder, lead, plastic, rubber, seals, wood or vinyl. Surface must remain wet for product to work. $40/gallon. | *[http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=11122&itemType=PRODUCT Eastwood Rust Dissolver] Merchant description: acid free rust remover, leaves surface ready to paint, plate, or powder coat. Suitable for engine parts, and harmless to copper, brass, aluminum, solder, lead, plastic, rubber, seals, wood or vinyl. Surface must remain wet for product to work. $40/gallon. | ||
*[http://sem.ws/product.php?product_id=164 Rust-Mort] Merchant's description: "Converts rust to a black or grayish, hard, insoluble, protective coating". | *[http://sem.ws/product.php?product_id=164 Rust-Mort] Merchant's description: "Converts rust to a black or grayish, hard, insoluble, protective coating". | ||
− | *[http://sem.ws/product.php?product_id=206 SEM Rust-Seal] | + | *[http://sem.ws/product.php?product_id=206 SEM Rust-Seal] Manufac descrip: "Transforms rust leaving a tough, permanent, black protective coating. RUST-SEAL can be left exposed or may be topcoated with enamels, lacquers or urethanes." |
− | + | (Make sure that none of the above count as "encapsulators". Also, what about the converters that leave a "protective film" on the metal. They say that they don't need neutralization, and they don't need to be washed off. Is this as good as cleaning to bare metal, and then hitting with epoxy primer?) | |
*Vinegar | *Vinegar | ||
*Muriatic acid (not for use on body panels, as it causes [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement hydrogen embrittlement]) | *Muriatic acid (not for use on body panels, as it causes [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement hydrogen embrittlement]) | ||
*Toilet cleaner (?) | *Toilet cleaner (?) | ||
− | *Cola ( | + | *Cola (?) |
− | *Phosphoric acid | + | *Phosphoric acid |
*Naval jelly (gelled phosphoric acid) | *Naval jelly (gelled phosphoric acid) | ||
*Mag wheel cleaner (?) | *Mag wheel cleaner (?) | ||
− | *Molasses (a 1:10 solution of molasses to water can be used for soaking rusty parts | + | *Molasses (a 1:10 solution of molasses to water can be used for soaking rusty parts) |
*Powdered household cleaning products such as Comet or Ajax | *Powdered household cleaning products such as Comet or Ajax | ||
===Rust encapsulators=== | ===Rust encapsulators=== | ||
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− | |||
Rust encapsulators work by sealing off existing rust, denying it the oxygen it needs to grow. | Rust encapsulators work by sealing off existing rust, denying it the oxygen it needs to grow. | ||
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#Will use rust encapsulation products, but not on body panels. | #Will use rust encapsulation products, but not on body panels. | ||
#Will use rust encapsulation products on a variety of parts, including body panels. | #Will use rust encapsulation products on a variety of parts, including body panels. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Arguments against using rust encapsulators: | ||
+ | *Though many rust encapsulation products carry a "lifetime warranty", such guarantees don't involve labor costs, losses, or other related costs. | ||
+ | *For hobbyists, it's often best to stick with a single line of paint/finish products, from bare metal to clearcoat. Using most rust products means that you're outside of the product line for the rest of the finish. So, it may be physically incompatible (resulting in a poor paint job), or it may void the product warranty. | ||
+ | *They're expensive. | ||
+ | *The major paint manufacturers like Sherwin Williams, PPG, and DuPont don't produce a rust encapsulation product. This is thought to be because they couldn't possibly warranty such a product. | ||
+ | *Notably, OEM manufacturers don't use rust encapsulation products. | ||
+ | *Many rust encapsulators require the surface to be lightly rusted first for the product to properly adhere. "Inducing" rust seems wrong to people. | ||
+ | *Rust prevention products are primarily advertised in hobbyist mags, not in periodicals read by professionals in the paint and body industry. | ||
+ | *The thought that the rust still lurks beneath the encapsulator, and hasn't been completely eliminated, is troubling. | ||
+ | *The cultural or conceptual notion that the rust hasn't been removed, just covered by "that black stuff". | ||
+ | |||
+ | Rust encapsulation products are hard to remove from skin. Try soaking in vegetable oil for 30 minutes, or see if there is a specific solvent for the product you're using. | ||
+ | |||
+ | When selecting a rust encapsulator, you will need to consider: | ||
+ | |||
+ | *Product compatibility? | ||
+ | *What can it be thinned with, and how? | ||
+ | *How long does it take to dry/cure? | ||
+ | *Will it fade in direct sunlight? Is there a UV topcoat available? | ||
+ | *What colors are available? | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | *[http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=1137&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=373&iSubCat=374&iProductID=1137 Eastwood Rust Encapsulator] Manufacturer description: encapsulates rust and primes in one step. can be used under or over body fillers. compatible with most topcoats. $100/gallon. | ||
+ | *POR-15: "silver" POR-15? Has a filler in it for minor imperfections? | ||
+ | *Zero Rust | ||
===Rust preventive oils and waxes=== | ===Rust preventive oils and waxes=== | ||
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*[http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MAutomotive/Aftermarket/Products/Product-Catalog/?PC_7_0_53BC_root=GST1T4S9TCgv&PC_7_0_53BC_output=html&PC_7_0_53BC_gvel=6DTWTJQPBBgl&PC_7_0_53BC_vroot=GSLPLPKL4Xge&PC_7_0_53BC_node=GS3H3CPLMLbe&PC_7_0_53BC_theme=en_US_aad_portal&PC_7_0_53BC_command=CustomizePageHandler 3M Rust Fighter application wand] | *[http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MAutomotive/Aftermarket/Products/Product-Catalog/?PC_7_0_53BC_root=GST1T4S9TCgv&PC_7_0_53BC_output=html&PC_7_0_53BC_gvel=6DTWTJQPBBgl&PC_7_0_53BC_vroot=GSLPLPKL4Xge&PC_7_0_53BC_node=GS3H3CPLMLbe&PC_7_0_53BC_theme=en_US_aad_portal&PC_7_0_53BC_command=CustomizePageHandler 3M Rust Fighter application wand] | ||
*[http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MAutomotive/Aftermarket/Products/Product-Catalog/?PC_7_0_53BC_root=GST1T4S9TCgv&PC_7_0_53BC_output=html&PC_7_0_53BC_gvel=6DTWTJQPBBgl&PC_7_0_53BC_vroot=GSLPLPKL4Xge&PC_7_0_53BC_node=GSQJ0YVJLSbe&PC_7_0_53BC_theme=en_US_aad_portal&PC_7_0_53BC_command=CustomizePageHandler 3M Rust Fighter] | *[http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MAutomotive/Aftermarket/Products/Product-Catalog/?PC_7_0_53BC_root=GST1T4S9TCgv&PC_7_0_53BC_output=html&PC_7_0_53BC_gvel=6DTWTJQPBBgl&PC_7_0_53BC_vroot=GSLPLPKL4Xge&PC_7_0_53BC_node=GSQJ0YVJLSbe&PC_7_0_53BC_theme=en_US_aad_portal&PC_7_0_53BC_command=CustomizePageHandler 3M Rust Fighter] | ||
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===Epoxy primer=== | ===Epoxy primer=== | ||
− | + | Epoxy primer/sealer is a non-porous finish that can typically be applied over bare steel, or the black iron phosphate coating that remains after "converting" rust. Body filler and high-build primers can be used on top of epoxy primer. | |
+ | |||
+ | Epoxy primer is a two-part mix, with a hardener that has to be added before you spray it. Thus, it's not available in a spray (rattle) can. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Body filler is commonly applied to bare metal. However, applying epoxy primer before the filler adds adhesion, corrosion protection, and durability. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ''list of epoxy primers goes here'' | ||
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===Seam sealers=== | ===Seam sealers=== | ||
Seam sealers are used to seal roof channels, drip rails, trunk seams, door seams, and other body seams. They can be either one or two-part, and are typically applied over primer, sometimes with the use of a specially-designed caulking gun or spray gun. | Seam sealers are used to seal roof channels, drip rails, trunk seams, door seams, and other body seams. They can be either one or two-part, and are typically applied over primer, sometimes with the use of a specially-designed caulking gun or spray gun. | ||
− | + | Lord Corporation makes several seam sealers: [http://www.lord.com/Home/ProductsServices/Adhesives/FusorAutomotiveAftermarketProducts/Products/SealersFoams/tabid/3402/Default.aspx Lord Corporation sealers and foams]. | |
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− | + | 3M manufactures several different types of seam sealers: [http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MAutomotive/Aftermarket/Products/New-Products/?PC_7_0_5FJC_command=CustomizePageHandler&PC_7_0_5FJC_theme=en_US_aad_portal&PC_7_0_5FJC_output=html&PC_7_0_5FJC_vroot=GSLPLPKL4Xge&PC_7_0_5FJC_gvel=6DTWTJQPBBgl&PC_7_0_5FJC_node=GSWMS8NB1Nbe&PC_7_0_5FJC_root=GST1T4S9TCgv 3M seam sealers]. | |
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− | + | SEM Products makes a [http://sem.ws/product.php?product_id=269 SEM high build self-leveling seam sealer], and a [http://sem.ws/product.php?product_id=98 SEM self-leveling seam sealer]. | |
− | + | ||
− | + | Transtar Autobody Technologies makes a variety of seam sealers: [http://www.tat-co.com/productCategory.asp?ID=6#sub9 Transtar seam sealers]. | |
− | + | ||
+ | International Epoxies and Sealers: [http://www.internationalepoxies.com/bodysealers.htm International Epoxies and Sealers body sealers]. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Valvoline makes their [http://www.pliogripbyvalvoline.com/sealers_foam.html Pliogrip line of seam sealers]. | ||
− | + | Evercoat has the [http://www.evercoat.com/productCategory.aspx?cat=41 maxim line of seam sealers]. | |
− | [http:// | + | |
===Metal washes, wax and grease removers=== | ===Metal washes, wax and grease removers=== | ||
*[http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=258&itemType=PRODUCT&path=1%2C2%2C458%2C467%2C473&KickerID=39&KICKER Eastwood Metal Wash]. Merchant's description: dry compound that is mixed with water. removes grease and oils from bare metal, and leaves behind corrosion inhibitors that prevent flash rusting and promote paint adhesion. $11 for enough dry mix to make 7 quarts. | *[http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=258&itemType=PRODUCT&path=1%2C2%2C458%2C467%2C473&KickerID=39&KICKER Eastwood Metal Wash]. Merchant's description: dry compound that is mixed with water. removes grease and oils from bare metal, and leaves behind corrosion inhibitors that prevent flash rusting and promote paint adhesion. $11 for enough dry mix to make 7 quarts. | ||
− | *[http://www.aerospace.henkel.com/index.cfm?ID=178 Metalprep 79] | + | *[http://www.aerospace.henkel.com/index.cfm?ID=178 Metalprep 79] manufac: phosphoric acid-based cleaner. leaves surface chemically clean and corrosion free. thoroughly rinse with water when done. brush/spray/dip |
− | + | ||
− | Read this thread thoroughly: | + | Read this thread thoroughly: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/what-else-wax-grease-remover-besides-mineral-spirits-51150.html |
The following are not to be used as metal cleaners: lacquer thinner, acetone, reducers. Use the product within the recommendations of your product system. Cleaners typically vary as to strength, and time they take to evaporate. | The following are not to be used as metal cleaners: lacquer thinner, acetone, reducers. Use the product within the recommendations of your product system. Cleaners typically vary as to strength, and time they take to evaporate. | ||
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*Sand paper. 36 grit to 220 grit. | *Sand paper. 36 grit to 220 grit. | ||
*Wire wheel on drill. When the wire bristles start to bend one way, reverse the drill and work in the other direction for a while. | *Wire wheel on drill. When the wire bristles start to bend one way, reverse the drill and work in the other direction for a while. | ||
− | *Wire wheel on grinder, or, these discs are considered to be superior to wire wheels: [http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Manufacturing/Industry/Product-Catalog/Online-Catalog/?PC_7_0_4UVL_root=GST1T4S9TCgv&PC_7_0_4UVL_output=html&PC_7_0_4UVL_gvel=H55CPWS904gl&PC_7_0_4UVL_vroot=81LC4NNTD4ge&PC_7_0_4UVL_node=RCM96XTX07be&PC_7_0_4UVL_theme=en_us_manufacturingindustry_portal&PC_7_0_4UVL_command=CustomizePageHandler 3M clean & strip disc], or [http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_0_4S4T_root=GST1T4S9TCgv&PC_7_0_4S4T_output=html&PC_7_0_4S4T_gvel=RJ5GMFSMV0gl&PC_7_0_4S4T_vroot=GS4JK4Y166ge&PC_7_0_4S4T_node=GSGKXWRKYVbe&PC_7_0_4S4T_theme=en_US_marineproducts_portal&PC_7_0_4S4T_command=AbcPageHandler 3M bristle disc], or [http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_0_4S4T_command=AbcPageHandler&PC_7_0_4S4T_theme=en_US_marineproducts_portal&PC_7_0_4S4T_output=html&PC_7_0_4S4T_vroot=GS4JK4Y166ge&PC_7_0_4S4T_gvel=RJ5GMFSMV0gl&PC_7_0_4S4T_node=GSVDY2CZYDbe&PC_7_0_4S4T_root=GST1T4S9TCgv Surface Conditioning Disc] | + | *Wire wheel on grinder, or, these discs are considered to be superior to wire wheels: [http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Manufacturing/Industry/Product-Catalog/Online-Catalog/?PC_7_0_4UVL_root=GST1T4S9TCgv&PC_7_0_4UVL_output=html&PC_7_0_4UVL_gvel=H55CPWS904gl&PC_7_0_4UVL_vroot=81LC4NNTD4ge&PC_7_0_4UVL_node=RCM96XTX07be&PC_7_0_4UVL_theme=en_us_manufacturingindustry_portal&PC_7_0_4UVL_command=CustomizePageHandler 3M clean & strip disc], or [http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_0_4S4T_root=GST1T4S9TCgv&PC_7_0_4S4T_output=html&PC_7_0_4S4T_gvel=RJ5GMFSMV0gl&PC_7_0_4S4T_vroot=GS4JK4Y166ge&PC_7_0_4S4T_node=GSGKXWRKYVbe&PC_7_0_4S4T_theme=en_US_marineproducts_portal&PC_7_0_4S4T_command=AbcPageHandler 3M bristle disc], or [http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_0_4S4T_command=AbcPageHandler&PC_7_0_4S4T_theme=en_US_marineproducts_portal&PC_7_0_4S4T_output=html&PC_7_0_4S4T_vroot=GS4JK4Y166ge&PC_7_0_4S4T_gvel=RJ5GMFSMV0gl&PC_7_0_4S4T_node=GSVDY2CZYDbe&PC_7_0_4S4T_root=GST1T4S9TCgv Surface Conditioning Disc] |
*Scotch-brite pads | *Scotch-brite pads | ||
*Steel toothbrush | *Steel toothbrush | ||
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*Steel wool | *Steel wool | ||
− | + | Tips | |
− | *When using a wire wheel, don't sit in one spot for too long -- | + | *When using a wire wheel, don't sit in one spot for too long -- it will warp the metal. |
==Methods== | ==Methods== | ||
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#Sand with 180 grit. | #Sand with 180 grit. | ||
#Use wax and grease remover, and then spray with epoxy primer. | #Use wax and grease remover, and then spray with epoxy primer. | ||
− | #From there, you can apply body filler (the epoxy may need to be scuffed, read instructions) | + | #From there, you can apply body filler (the epoxy may need to be scuffed, read instructions) |
#When the filler work is done, scuff with a red scotch-brite pad. | #When the filler work is done, scuff with a red scotch-brite pad. | ||
#Then, apply two more coats of epoxy, followed by high-build primer. | #Then, apply two more coats of epoxy, followed by high-build primer. | ||
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====Getting the entire vehicle body dipped==== | ====Getting the entire vehicle body dipped==== | ||
− | + | Need more info on Redi-Strip. What chemical do they use? What's the cost? Can a hobbyist acquire and use the same chemical that Redi-Strip uses? When the body is returned to you, is it truly completely clean, or does it have to be cleaned to get all of the chemical removed from nooks and crannies, etc.? | |
====Quick fix for exposed areas (dents, etc.)==== | ====Quick fix for exposed areas (dents, etc.)==== | ||
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====Removing pitted rust in body panels==== | ====Removing pitted rust in body panels==== | ||
− | + | After removing all surface rust, treat with metal prep, wash, dry, sand, prime, fill the pits with polyester putty (or Evercoat's Metal 2 Metal), then smooth and prime again. | |
+ | |||
+ | A spot blaster is useful for this: silica as the medium. Grinding wheel, die grinder. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Or, repeatedly prime with a high build primer and block sand. You may have to prime/block several times to get the pitted area up to the same level as the surface around it. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Sprayable body filler, called "SlickSand"? From Evercoat? Like a "very high build primer"? Hard, but sands easy. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Let naval jelly sit on the pitted area overnight, if possible. Cover naval jelly with plastic wrap to keep it from drying out overnight. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Heat the pitted area until it glows, and then cool it with oil on a rag. Clean with wax/grease remover, scuff, prime, paint. Just for small areas, because it causes wrinkles and shrink marks. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Product recommendation: Featherfill? | ||
+ | |||
+ | Review this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitting_corrosion | ||
====Fixing rust holes in body panels==== | ====Fixing rust holes in body panels==== | ||
− | + | Grind down all the paint and rust from around the hole. Clamp a piece of copper to the other side (roof flashing, penny, etc.). Then, fill in the hole with a MIG welder. When done, unclamp the copper -- it won't stick to the panel. Also, it absorbs the heat, so the panel won't warp as much. | |
+ | |||
+ | Rust pinholes are hard to repair with a welder because the "holes" are actually "craters". The hole is the bottom of a craterlike thinned out area of metal. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Will brass work too? | ||
+ | |||
+ | What about drilling and patching pinholes? | ||
====Storing body panels==== | ====Storing body panels==== | ||
− | Use epoxy primer ( | + | Use epoxy primer (AKA epoxy primer/sealer), it won't allow rust. Not the same as regular primer. |
Wet-sand down to 400 grit, wash/dry, grind down rust to bare metal, apply body filler where needed, blow off, clean with prep-sol or similar cleaner, tape it up, and prime with epoxy primer. | Wet-sand down to 400 grit, wash/dry, grind down rust to bare metal, apply body filler where needed, blow off, clean with prep-sol or similar cleaner, tape it up, and prime with epoxy primer. | ||
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====Rusted window channels==== | ====Rusted window channels==== | ||
− | + | Difficult to fabricate, need more info on this. | |
===Vinyl tops=== | ===Vinyl tops=== | ||
Rust is common in vinyl tops. The vinyl gets porous after a few years, and lets in moisture. | Rust is common in vinyl tops. The vinyl gets porous after a few years, and lets in moisture. | ||
− | + | How to prevent? | |
− | + | ||
− | + | ||
===Leaf spring rust=== | ===Leaf spring rust=== | ||
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===Cleaning light surface rust off crankshaft=== | ===Cleaning light surface rust off crankshaft=== | ||
+ | Have a machine shop do it, or: | ||
− | + | #Very fine steel wool or scotchbrite pad, and light oil. Rub around the journals in the direction of rotation, not across. | |
− | + | OR | |
− | + | #Cut 600 grip wet or dry sandpaper into strips the width of the crank journals. Wrap it around the journal, and secure it with tape. Then, make a strap from leather, about one-half the width of the sandpaper strips. Use the strap on the paper in a shoeshine motion. Finish off with some light oil on the sandpaper. Do a few strokes first, then clean the paper, because the rust will clog the sandpaper. | |
− | + | LP3 as rust inhibitor on crankshafts? | |
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===Electrolysis=== | ===Electrolysis=== | ||
− | + | Removing rust with electrolysis -- research this: http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/electrolytic_derusting.htm , http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-removal-lower-arms-other-suspension-parts-108384.html , http://www.davidbradley.net/ERR.html , http://antique-engines.com/trailer-electrolysis.htm . | |
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===How to remove rust from chrome=== | ===How to remove rust from chrome=== | ||
− | + | Use mag wheel polish, fine steel wool, crumpled-up pieces of aluminum foil. | |
− | + | ||
===Preventing engine rust=== | ===Preventing engine rust=== | ||
Engine storage spray, or wipe down with [http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/ Marvel Mystery Oil]. | Engine storage spray, or wipe down with [http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/ Marvel Mystery Oil]. | ||
− | Cylinder walls with flash rust: | + | Cylinder walls with flash rust: marvel mystery oil, steel wool, etc. Pitted rusting will necessitate a rebuild. |
===How to de-rust gas tanks=== | ===How to de-rust gas tanks=== | ||
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Flush with CLR, Kool Klean (can't find). Manufacturers of CLR say that it shouldn't be used in a radiator: http://www.jelmar.com/CLRbasic.asp . | Flush with CLR, Kool Klean (can't find). Manufacturers of CLR say that it shouldn't be used in a radiator: http://www.jelmar.com/CLRbasic.asp . | ||
− | When building an engine, to prevent rust: when done washing it and blowing it dry, oil it down, and store it in a plastic bag -- sealed | + | When building an engine, to prevent rust: when done washing it and blowing it dry, oil it down, and store it in a plastic bag -- sealed (confirm this). |
==="Oiling" your car=== | ==="Oiling" your car=== | ||
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===Cleaning hand tools=== | ===Cleaning hand tools=== | ||
Tumble in a cement mixer with oil and sand. Or, soak in a bucket with parts cleaner or paint thinner. | Tumble in a cement mixer with oil and sand. Or, soak in a bucket with parts cleaner or paint thinner. | ||
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− | |||
===Electronic rust inhibition=== | ===Electronic rust inhibition=== | ||
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*[http://www.ruststopnorthamerica.com/electronic-rustproofing-rust-proofing.htm Rust Stop North America] | *[http://www.ruststopnorthamerica.com/electronic-rustproofing-rust-proofing.htm Rust Stop North America] | ||
− | + | This is known as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathodic_protection cathodic protection]? Research this. And: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrificial_anode sacrificial anode] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_anode galvanic anode]. | |
===Frame rust=== | ===Frame rust=== | ||
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===Media blasting rust=== | ===Media blasting rust=== | ||
− | + | *Sand is not recommended for media blasting panels. It acts like little hammers, warping panels with compressive forces (analagous to hail). Technically, it can be done, but extreme caution must be used. | |
− | + | ||
− | *Sand is not recommended for media blasting panels. It acts like little hammers, warping panels with compressive forces (analagous to hail). | + | |
*Use softer media (list examples): | *Use softer media (list examples): | ||
**55 grit silica-based media | **55 grit silica-based media | ||
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*One option is to use chemical paint stripper, then use a sandblaster to lightly "dust" the remaining rust. | *One option is to use chemical paint stripper, then use a sandblaster to lightly "dust" the remaining rust. | ||
*Media blasting can remove good metal from body panels too. Also, used media can have metal particles left in the media. | *Media blasting can remove good metal from body panels too. Also, used media can have metal particles left in the media. | ||
− | *Soda blasting can remove light rust, and won't warp panels. However, when soda blasting body panels, the resultant film can negatively affect finish adhesion. | + | *Soda blasting can remove light rust, and won't warp panels. However, when soda blasting body panels, the resultant film can negatively affect finish adhesion. Epoxy primer can peel off. Soda blast medium must be "neutralized". 24 or 36 grit grinder, followed by warm water with soap. Do this with a scuff pad, and rinse thoroughly. Some finish companies specifically advise against the use of their products on soda-blasted finishes, which makes its use contentious. |
+ | |||
+ | |||
=Miscellaneous= | =Miscellaneous= | ||
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==Flooded vehicles== | ==Flooded vehicles== | ||
Flooded vehicles can be very difficult to handle, as there can be rust in any and all places. They are best avoided, unless it's the car that you really want. | Flooded vehicles can be very difficult to handle, as there can be rust in any and all places. They are best avoided, unless it's the car that you really want. | ||
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==Fiberglass resin patches== | ==Fiberglass resin patches== | ||
− | One technique that has been recommended is to grind/clean the rust, tape the underside of the panel to be patched, and then fill the holes with fiberglass resin, then paint and undercoat. This trick is not really a good idea -- when the body flexes, there will be cracks in the fiberglass pieces. Metal also expands at different rates than | + | One technique that has been recommended is to grind/clean the rust, tape the underside of the panel to be patched, and then fill the holes with fiberglass resin, then paint and undercoat. This trick is not really a good idea -- when the body flexes, there will be cracks in the fiberglass pieces. Metal also expands at different rates than fiberglass, causing cracks to form, allowing more rust to form in these cracks. |
− | + | ||
− | + | ||
==Do metal etches leave coating?== | ==Do metal etches leave coating?== | ||
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==What about riveting in patch panels?== | ==What about riveting in patch panels?== | ||
− | Very low-end solution, like | + | Very low-end solution, like fiberglass patching metal. Panel adhesives are a better choice when you can't weld. |
+ | |||
+ | |||
=Resource dump= | =Resource dump= | ||
'''Drop links in here if they're relevant to this article. They'll be reviewed, incorporated, and referenced.''' | '''Drop links in here if they're relevant to this article. They'll be reviewed, incorporated, and referenced.''' | ||
− | *[http://www. | + | |
− | + | ||
− | + | ||
+ | *[http://www.bhi.co.uk/hints/rust.htm Rust removal FAQ] | ||
*http://www.corrosionsource.com/index.htm | *http://www.corrosionsource.com/index.htm | ||
*[http://www.fertanamerica.com/ Fertan rust remover] | *[http://www.fertanamerica.com/ Fertan rust remover] | ||
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*http://www.jasco-help.com/products/prod_mg.htm | *http://www.jasco-help.com/products/prod_mg.htm | ||
*[http://www.restorick.com/tech/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37 zero rust application tips] | *[http://www.restorick.com/tech/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37 zero rust application tips] | ||
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=Related resources= | =Related resources= | ||
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=References= | =References= | ||
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*[http://science.howstuffworks.com/question445.htm How does rust work?] HowStuffWorks.com | *[http://science.howstuffworks.com/question445.htm How does rust work?] HowStuffWorks.com | ||
*[http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthread.php?t=700 Quarter panel rust fix], ''A2Z Automotive Forums'', March 26, 2002. | *[http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthread.php?t=700 Quarter panel rust fix], ''A2Z Automotive Forums'', March 26, 2002. | ||
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*[http://hotrodders.com/forum/stopping-rust-inside-103320.html Stopping rust from the inside], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', November 26, 2006. | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/stopping-rust-inside-103320.html Stopping rust from the inside], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', November 26, 2006. | ||
*[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-treatment-repair-109939.html Rust treatment and repair], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', February 25, 2007. | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-treatment-repair-109939.html Rust treatment and repair], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', February 25, 2007. | ||
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