Editing Hotrodders.com classified ad issues

==Summary== This wiki entry was started to organize and formalize the discussion surrounding potential adjustments to the way that classified ads and the related discussions are handled on the Hotrodders.com forums. ===Current Hotrodders.com classified ad policy=== Hotrodders.com currently has a [http://www.hotrodders.com/ads/ classified ad system] which offers unlimited free classified ads to its members. Per [http://www.hotrodders.com/help/board/guidelines.html Hotrodders.com guidelines], it is forbidden to buy, sell, or trade parts on the forums. When discussions delve into transactions among members, moderation policy dictates that the specific details of the transaction (price, part specifics, make/model, etc.) are to be edited out, and the members are to be referred to the classifieds, or to the private messaging system (PM's). As stated in the [http://www.hotrodders.com/help/board/classifieds-guidelines.html Hotrodders.com classifieds guidelines], "commercial" ads from vendors are disallowed. The exact wording is: <blockquote> ''The Hotrodders Classifieds are primarily intended for person-to-person sales of parts and vehicles, not for companies to advertise their goods. Commercial ads are prohibited. Commercial ads are generally defined as ads in which many of the same product are being offered for sale. However, a special exception may be made if a private collector is offering a one-time sale of a large collection of similar parts.'' </blockquote> ==Buy/sell forum== One solution that has been proposed is a designated buy/sell forum, where Hotrodders.com members would be free to post and discuss the buying, selling, and trading of hot rod parts and services. It could be structured like this: *Threads could possibly be deleted after a set time (a week, a month, etc.). *If a buy/sell post appeared in a tech forum thread, the post could be split out into a new thread in the buy/sell forum. *Posting in the forum could be limited to users with > X posts. *A "nag screen" could be used when the user posted a new thread in the forum. The nag screen could encourage use of the classifieds instead of or in addition to the buy/sell forum, and promote the guidelines. ===Points in favor of a buy/sell forum=== *A designated buy/sell forum may reduced the moderation overhead required in adjudicating the more subtle potential business guideline violations. *All questionable posts could just be placed in the buy/sell forum, and the tech forums could thus be kept clean and crisp. *Some posts are borderline commercial, or their commercial status can't be firmly established (like trying to determine if the poster is discussing a part that his brother's uncle's cousin is selling). Such posts could simply be moved into the buy/sell forum. The original poster couldn't rightly complain that their post was deleted, as it was simply moved. *The classified ads don't allow back-and-forth commenting. The conversations surrounding buying, selling, and swapping parts constitutes a legitimate part of hotrodding culture, and the classified ad format doesn't allow for it. For example, this thread: [http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/whos-got-predator-carb-laying-around-150184.html Who's got a predator carb lying around?], or [http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/looking-2-groove-water-pump-pulley-my-71-340-challenger-151148.html Looking for a 2 groove water pump pulley for my '71 340 Challenger]. *Moderators can't currently move commercial posts "into" classified ads, but they can move posts and threads in between different forums. *By allowing buy/sell discussion within the forums, more people would make use of the ability to run classified ads on the site. *Such a forum could co-exist with the classifieds, and draw more traffic to them. Any additional bandwidth is essentially a non-issue. *Forbidding buy/sell discussions can come across as dictatorial. ===Points against a buy/sell forum=== *By allowing a designated commercial forum, we leave the door open for commercial marketers to find sneaky ways to bypass policy. *We already have a designated buy-sell area, in the [http://hotrodders.com/ads Hotrodders Classifieds]. A forum is redundant, and sloppy. *The format of the classified ads is much more cut-and-dried than a discussion. This cuts down on using subtle conversational methods to game the guidelines. *Any potential commercial intrusion can't be handled lightly. The potential for abuse has to be well thought-out before proceeding. *It could set up a precedent where members would simply post a buy/sell post anywhere on the forum, knowing that it would just be transferred by a moderator to the buy/sell forum. *Discussion about transactions could lead to arguments or general bickering. *Having two buy/sell features (the classifieds and a designated forum) is silly, and it confuses people. It generates more opportunities for people to make a mistake, and could potentially cause more problems, and increase the load on moderator time. *It's a slippery slope. *Adding a commerce forum will change the emphasis of the entire site. ===Questions/issues about a buy/sell forum=== *How would we want it to be treated in Google? Should we allow spidering of the buy/sell posts? *Are buying/selling/swapping major purposes of Hotrodders.com? *How to address the various pitches from vendors/suppliers? How to regulate? Maybe allow them to post once a week/month? *How to regulate users who abuse the ability to bump their posts to keep their ad in front? *Do we allow discussion of non-automotive goods/services? *Any limits on pictures or graphics? *Should we be proactive about the legitimacy of buyers and sellers? Or should we not regulate it at all (like Craigslist), and have a "buyer beware" system? *Should we limit the total number of ads that a user can post? *Specifically, how should we handle buy/sell posts that are placed in a non-buy/sell thread? ==Other solutions== It's been suggested that people don't look up toward the top of Hotrodders.com pages, where the link to the classifieds is posted. On the main forum page, we could intersperse a link to the classifieds with the links to the main forums (Engine, Interior, Garage-Tools, etc.). This feature is available in the vBulletin software that the forum uses, which suggests that it's commonly used by other forums. ==External links== ===Terminology=== *[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright-line_rule Bright-line rule] *[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balancing_test Balancing test] ===Hotrodders.com policy=== *[http://www.hotrodders.com/help/board/business.html Hotrodders.com business posting guidelines] *[http://www.hotrodders.com/help/board/guidelines.html Hotrodders.com general guidelines] *[http://www.hotrodders.com/help/board/classifieds-guidelines.html Hotrodders.com classifieds guidelines]

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